Spitfire Elevator Positioning

Dave Gibson
Spitfire stats
Tue Sep 10 03:05:43 2002
Just checked out the Spitfires in the features section of Hyperscale. Only 40% of the models submitted have their elevators correctly positioned. Some of the offenders should have known better and the jury is still out on some of the others. Just a thought.

Troy
Re: Spitfire stats
Tue Sep 10 04:25:43 2002
They could always just say their pilots are good boys and have the proper control locks installed, which locked the ailerons and elevators shut in the neutral position to save damage from wind gusts.
Of course then you could just look in the cockpit and see if they are telling the truth

Steve Sauvé, Ottawa, Canada
Tue Sep 10 08:41:13 2002
Dave
I think some folks lose their perspective on issues like this one. Unless it’s a diorama, we’re talking about model airplanes, not replicating a moment in historical time.
We make concessions all the time in order to better display our efforts. If you take modern jet models as an example, the cockpit, airframe, pylons, undercarriage, and weapons should be festooned with red ‘Remove Before Flight ‘ flags, until the engines are running and the pilot’s in the seat. You don’t see it all that often, and when it’s done, it often detracts from the rest of the model. Still a real nice model without them.
It’s the same artistic license that allows dozens of open maintenance panels on armed aircraft, etc. We do it for simplicity, or because it looks cool to do so (within reason). Consequently, I can live with ‘flat’ elevators on a nice model of a Spitfire, and I am a huge fan of the aircraft.

Dave Gibson
Tue Sep 10 13:45:42 2002
Hi Steve
I guess that I just get a little anal about this point. I can forgive a new guy, but I find it difficult to forgive people with a lot of knowledge, who cannot be bothered to drop the elevators. If you check the site out, you will find massive modifications to airframes and nothing done to correctly position the elevators.
Sorry to be so anal,

Steve Sauvé, Ottawa, Canada
Tue Sep 10 14:43:24 2002
My view is that a model is just a model, but a diorama is that ‘slice of life’ thing, where posing, positioning, real-world safety practices, etc., should come into play.
A stand-alone model of airplane is going to have all sorts of real-world inaccuracies built into it because of the way the modeller chooses to prepare and display it. But to me this posed elevator issue is 100% forgivable, and not worthy of any negative commentary.
You’ll see concessions being made everywhere if you apply real world rules to 1/xx scale modelling.

Chip Jean
Tue Sep 10 09:00:32 2002
Some people build….. some people criticize those that build.
Just a thought.

Peter
Tue Sep 10 11:00:33 2002
Dave,
I respect your opinion that a Spitfire modeled without deflected elevators is inaccurate (Which it is), but don’t know if I can agree that it is worthy of pointing out (Which of course, is my opinion).
My modeling time is limited enough without worrying too much about having everything exactly as it should be. I tend to look at the overall effect the builder has accomplished (Paint, clean assembly, etc) and not get too concerned if the control surfaces are “Correct”. However, I recognize that other modellers may strive for a more accurate representation of the real thing and if that’s what floats their boat, great! I think there’s room enough in this hobby for all approaches, all levels of dedication to accuracy. Neither approach makes for a lesser model, it’s all what the builder was after.
Not exactly sure if the subject warrants a statistical analysis, especially using the phrase “Some of the offenders should have known better.” The next Spit I build may not have deflected elevators, so I guess that would qualify me as an “Offender”.
Let’s check and see how many Tamiya 1/48 Corsairs on HS still have the cutout in the starboard inner flap

Dave Gibson
Wed Oct 29 18:21:49 2003
Peter,
IMHO we try to do our best. I may be wrong, but there seem to be two types of modeller … the engineer and the artist.
The artist needs something on which to apply his/her skills.
The engineer IMHO tries to get as near as possible to the original artefact.
I classify myself as engineer with artist overtones. I agree that some people may be quite the opposite.
Really, I did not want to create a flame war, but, I consider HS as THE definitive cyber modelling website at this moment. There are others up and coming. As for a statistical analysis; it got a response from you!
An obviously new modeller got a “great /fantastic/wonderful/etc” response for a very ordinary spitfire. Is he going to learn, or produce a similar next model?
BTW I intend to build some FAA Corsairs. I KNOW I will make some mistakes, but I will seek advice and try to minimize them.

Craig Morton

Tue Sep 10 13:35:39 2002
Really I’m just responding to your comment about new modellers and feedback to their models. Open critique is not allowed here on HS as I’m sure you know so if they want to learn from their mistakes they should post some pics over at Hotwash. I’ve learnt a lot from the guys over there, it’s a pity it’s not used more! As for Spit elevators, sometime I lower sometimes I don’t. Depends how the mood takes me!!!

Dave Gibson
Tue Sep 10 13:44:33 2002
I appreciate your point. I think that we should be more honest. A guy is never going to learn anything if we say “Wow/great/awesome etc” to what is in fact a load of s**t.
However, IT IS YOUR MODEL, so do as you wish, but …..

Craig Morton
Tue Sep 10 13:52:01 2002
I agree Dave but this ain’t our site and we can’t change the rules that’s why I post over at Hotwash so if I’ve got something wrong I can be told what and how to put it right. Just that not many seem to use it which is a pity. And Ok Ok Ok I’ll drop em in future

T.Lake
Tue Sep 10 14:17:22 2002
Neutral or up elevator is not wrong! It may not be in the majority of parked Spitfire photographs, but I have seen plenty of pictures of up, neutral and everything in between. Is there a technical reason for the “down” elevator? No. It just happens to be practical, and that in most cases the stick was left in that position when the pilot vacated the aircraft. There was not to my knowledge an order to leave elevator’s down. It is much more likely that Standing Station orders dictated control locks to be installed in other than “ready” aircraft. It is a matter of convenience and probability. (and to some extent the character of the pilot)

Dave Gibson
Tue Sep 10 15:02:55 2002
You are right in that many parked spitfires have their elevators in the neutral or up position.
1) neutral … the control column lock has been applied. Seek guidance on that one.
2) Up …. the control column has been locked back by parachute /harness straps. Seek guidance on that one.
Pilots preferred the control column forward. It didn’t dig into their dangly bits! This is one reason that the Spitfire Mk 22/24 was so unpopular. The control column was where the pilot wanted to park his arse.