'Threads'
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'Threads' |
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A Discussion on the Spitfire PR. Mk.XIII
source: Hyperscale
(thanks to Brett Green for permission)
(Bold Italics are added by the Webmaster to clarify the text or correct known errors. Some comments have been edited for clarity)
Ian
Crawford
Naval Spitfire PR Mk.XIII
Mon Dec 15
I'm trying to locate details of the camouflage and markings for a PR
Mk.XIII Spitfire, to fill a gap in the IPMS/UK Spitfire SIG display. It appears
that a number of PR Mk.XIII aircraft were transferred to the FAA in early 1944,
and many (if not all) served with 718 Sqn at Henstridge, including at least one
presentation aircraft - R7335 "The Kirby". Can anyone point me at any
reference material that might throw light on colour schemes, markings etc.?
Failing that, can anyone offer an informed guess at what such schemes might be?
I'm inclined towards Temperate Sea Scheme, but am open to persuasion otherwise.
bob
sikkel
I'd like to know...
Tue Dec 16
If you do find anything conclusive. I'm personally quite skeptical of the whole
"mauve" scheme, but I also haven't studied the original book that
proposed it. These aircraft seemed to spend most of their lives at a Maintenance
Unit (i.e. in storage), but as others have indicated there's precious little
known about what use the FAA DID give them.
Most, by the way, were based on Vb airframes, though that is not universally
true.
Graham
Boak
If anything had the scheme....
Tue Dec 16
then the PR Mk.XIII has to be the likeliest bet. If anything had the scheme. It
seems likely that it was tried, as it got into the AMOs, but it doesn't seem to
have been widespread.
However, I very much doubt that it would have been retained for FAA service. If
they had to go to be re-engined back at
Dave
Fleming
Spitfire at War
Mon Dec 15
One of the series - 1,2 but I think 3, has a photo of a PR XIII. Wings of Fame 5
article on PR Spits has the same photo.
IIRC Paul Lucas stated the scheme to be EDSG, dark sea green and Mauve in SAM
when he postulated that FR.XIV had that scheme, and I think Ian Huntley also
quoted these colours
Ian
Crawford
Hmmm . . . . Mauve . . . .
Tue Dec 16
Sounds good! I'll try to run down those articles. Many thanks, Dave.
Edgar
Brooks
There's a photo of AA739 G3-O, of 718
Mon Dec 15
Squadron, in Air
Derek
Pennington
According to the Squadrons of the Fleet
Mon Dec 15
Air Arm, 761, (6 a/c)had W3831, 808,BM591, and 886, P8784.
In the case of the latter two sqdns, they seem to have only had the Spits for a
month, so would not have been marked accordingly. Since, in the case of 761,
they were used for training in TacRecce, it would suggest strongly that they
kept their RAF Temperate Land Scheme camo.
Ian
Crawford
Thanks . . .
Mon Dec 15
Thanks Derek,
I was hoping to be able to build my PR Mk.XIII in something other than the Day
Fighter Scheme. The SIG display is not short of Ocean Grey/Dark Green
aeroplanes.
Bruce
Archer
Spitfire PR.XIII
Mon Dec 15
Ian,
These are rare birds indeed. I have only seen one confirmed image of a PR.XIII.
I do not have anything here at work, but will look when I get home. It does
appear these were recently rebuilt into PR.XIIIs from Mk.Vs (?), so would have
standard RAF Camo, at least for a while. Codes would have been yellow ( 2nd line
sqns.).
Ian
Crawford
Many thanks . . .
Mon Dec 15
Thanks, Bruce.
As far as I can tell, many of the naval PR Mk.XIIIs were converted from PR Mk.VIIs
by removing the inner machine guns and installing a Merlin 32. This conversion
seems to have done at Vickers' South Marston factory in mid 1943 and the
aircraft weren't handed to the RN until early 1944. I wonder if they had time to
repaint them?
Brad
Spitfire, The History?
Mon Dec 15
Hi Bruce,
I quickly went through this book after reading the initial thread and couldn't
find anything regarding this plane. Did I miss it somewhere?
Ian
Crawford
Here's where to look . . .
Mon Dec 15
Hi Brad,
It's not an obvious variant! The PR Mk.XIII was a development of the PR Mk.VII
(PR 'G') low level armed reconnaissance version, with only four machine guns
instead of eight, and a more powerful engine. Opinions differ as to how many
were actually converted (there were no new-build aeroplanes), but anywhere
between 18 and 25 seems to be the accepted range.
In your 'Spitfire - The History', try the chapter entitled 'Low Level
Photography' - page 249 in my edition - and you'll find 3 photographs of L1004,
the PR Mk.XIII prototype, and the Boscombe Down report on the aeroplane.
As far as I can tell, it's the only 'factory-built' gap in our SIG display, so
I'm quite anxious to fill it!
Dave
Gibson
Ian, do you have...
Mon Dec 15
a mark 23 in your SIG. BTW, when's the web-site going to open? looking forward
to that.
Looking through my to-respond-to list, I have yet to write to you and thank you
for those Hurricane pix. Thank you very much indeed.
Brad
Yup...Found it!
Mon Dec 15
Hi Ian,
I found it after reading Bruce's post. I just didn't read close enough, and I
also was focusing (no pun intended), in the chapters before the Mk XIV.
Thanks and I hope you fill that gap.
Bruce
Archer
PR.XIII
Mon Dec 15
Brad ,
It is there. You do have to look for it . I have to check the book I have on
WWII FAA a/c. Only a few were made for low level recon, but the PR/FR.IX was
much better.
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